My Earth Day Post
Posted by TFG on April 22nd, 2007
Maybe I’m an outlier, somewhere out at the edge of the bell-curve, but I’ve found Compact Flourescent Bulbs to
a) cost three or four times as much as normal bulbs
b) run just barely as long as regular 89¢ bulbs from Dollar General
I’m a good test case, because I currently house a bunch of wastrels who never met a light switch they could turn off. CFL bulbs burn out just as fast as regular incandescent bulbs in my garage, which is apparently a place full of monsters and home-invaders, given that the garage light is on 100% of the time that any member of my family is anywhere in the same county.
The fun part, as the breadwinner and billpayer, is having to suppress a desire to scream IDIOT! at them as they inform each other, in earnest tones about Oprah, Obama, organic foods, and all the rest. For whatever reason, there is an ImpeachBush.org yard sign on the dining room floor of the 3000sf house in Dallas they happily occupy, free of any fiduciary care in the world. Such is life here in the aughts (and my rapidly approaching fifties). I temper my disgust by remembering what an idiot I was when I was younger.
NB: Welcome to all you InstantMan clickers…thanks for swinging by. Enjoy the rest of the show.
SPOUSAL UPDATE: The Wife promised to turn off the garage light if I would help her re-enter the world of live webcasts. Red-hot pokers in my eyeballs seem more appealing…changing a light bulb, that’s cake.
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:54 pm
I’ve had the same experience. I’ve tried over a dozen CFB’s over the years and I’ve had them burn out MORE often than regular bulbs in both Tucson, AZ and here in Keizer, OR.
I gave up on ‘em.
Orion
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:00 pm
Mazel tov on your Instapundit link!
As a petroleum geologist(currently drilling several oil wells in Concho County, Texas), I am puzzled why using fluorescent bulbs affects our use of Middle east oil.
We use our own coal for most of our electric generation.
What WILL force us to use more Middle East oil is the ethanol scam, where we will use more than twice as much gasoline and diesel as we obtain from the ethanol.
I won’t mention the economic idiocy and waste of wind power and super-expensive solar. It’s all a pile of propagandistic crap!
Nuclear is expensive, takes a 15-year start-up delay and is a real political hot potato.
For the US, there is only one real solution for electrical generation, and that’s American coal. It has literally saved us from disaster, over the past 30 years.
We are the Saudi Arabia of coal, thankfully.
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:37 pm
I hope Instapundit does more for you, Scott, than he did for me last fall with a little linky. Meanwhile, did you know that H.E.B. has people in the aisle giving away 60watt CFBs? We are testing ours in the laundry room. It has an annoying delayed reaction to the light switch. It is claimed that it will last seven years. Results when we get them.
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:47 pm
It is claimed that a 15 watt CFL will give the same light output as a 100 watt incandescent bulb. Maybe so - after about an hour! My experience is like this: turn on the switch and you get no light for the first tenth to half of a second. After that you get about the equivalent of a 25 watt bulb that builds up over the next 30 to 60 minutes to full brightness. Nice! All I wanted to do was read the front page of the paper and then leave the room.
By the way, read the instructions and don’t use these CFLs in circuits with dimmers; they might just burn your house down as a side effect.
And by the way, I do like them because they save on the electric bill. You can imagine how I’d feel if they didn’t have this one redeeming quality.
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:50 pm
We moved into a new house and installed a batch of CFB’s to keep costs down. Some, something like 20%, did burn out pretty quickly, less than 12,000 hours real elapsed time. I figure these little suckers only lasted about 1,000 to 2,000 hours of operating time. That said, the rest of them are lasting something like 40,000 hours real elapsed time, and the last failure was a long time ago. Of course, they have a lot less than 40,000 hiurs operating time.
I think we are seeing the classic bathtub curve on failure times. There are a few that fail quickly, most last a long time, and few fail during the time between the failure of the last turkey and the failure of the first quality bulb.
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:00 am
When we moved into this house, 3 years ago, I changed every bulb to CF. As they burned out, I replaced them with regular bulbs.
Just over half have burned out over 3 years and 2 months.
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:11 am
I bought a 6 pack of the simulated 60w CFL’s bulbs from Costco about 2 years ago. Just had my first one of that batch burn out last month.
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:20 am
I started using CFB in lights that are left on a lot. In some cases they seem to burn out faster than normal bulbs - especially in a ceiling light. On the whole, I haven’t gotten anywhere near the promised two-year. Also, some of them look really bad. I bought one bulb that was such an ugly blue I had to replace it immediately. Finally, they don’t seem as bright as they are supposed to be. Possibly it is like T J Sawyer said and it takes a long time before they reach full brightness or maybe, after a half hour, your eyes adjust to the light. Regardless, I end up replacing a 75 watt bulb with one equivalent to a 100 watt bulb. While it still uses less electricity, the savings are not what is claimed.
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:56 am
When I rebuilt my house in 1995 after a fire I splurged on compact flourescents. I have 8 in the living room, 8 in the game room, one in the entry hall, four in the dining room and 3 in the master bath. These bulbs were rated at 5 years, if memory serves.
Only one bulb has burned out - in the bathroom, which probably gets more use than the others. But that’s 12 years and counting. I know these are the originals because they still wear the paint my BIL rolled over them when we were remodeling…
Haven’t had a need to buy many of the “new-fangled” CFB’s (mine have a plastic dome covering the spiral bulb) so maybe quality has declined. But I think I’ve gotten my money’s worth.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:30 am
I have about 100 light bulbs in my house, many of them above bathroom mirrors and in track lighting in the living room, den and kitchen. About 7 years ago I was replacing 10-15 bulbs every month. I decided to replace all of them with CFBs, not to save money, but time (I live in Houston, and pay over $400 a month feeding my hungy air-conditioners during the summer months, so saving a few bucks in lighting does not excite me much). Now I replace maybe two or three bulbs a month, max. My experience therefore tends to confirm the durability claims. In fact, as I type this I have a the first CFB I ever installed in my house shining over me. It is the most used light in the house, and it has been shining for 7 years.
On the other hand, I have noticed that a large number of CFBs fails in the first days or weeks after installation. This is particularly true with the less ugly/more expensive ones: flood lights and bathroom decorative bulbs. I think that there is a serious quality control issue here.
I agree with commenters that note the anoying delay of 30 min. or more until some CFBs achieve maximum luminosity. This is particularly anoying in the kitchen when I go down to get a late-night snack, as I’m about to do. Maybe I’ll get a remote control switch.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:44 am
Try using one outside. I did for an elderly relative who would neither shut the light off nor replace the burned out bulbs. As the temperatures dropped the brightness dropped to the point where it was little more than Christmas tree light. Incidentally, they lived longer.
That was in IL a few years ago - it may never happen in Houston. But they put out a lot less heat, so that’s easier on the AC.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:24 am
“…some cases they seem to burn out faster than normal bulbs - especially in a ceiling light.”
I’ve been told by an electrical engineer that it’s all about electronic ballast overheating, and as you might surmise, recessed ceiling light fixtures — which trap rising warm air — are where you would expect CFLs to burn out the fastest. For long life, upright is better than sideways which is better than tip-down, and open is better than enclosed.
As for outdoor installations, J Bowen wrote:
“As the temperatures dropped the brightness dropped to the point where it was little more than Christmas tree light. Incidentally, they lived longer.”
We also live in IL, where temperatures dip far below the recommended range of fluorescent bulbs. The do get really dim in subfreezing weather, but I share your observation that the cold doesn’t seem to hurt their longevity. They’re going on 5 years of fairly heavy use. I figure the cold weather, and good ventilation even when the air isn’t cold, has kept them going.
I would be interested in knowing if Richard R’s approach of replacing early-dying CFLs with incandescents has followed a pattern consistent with this.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:00 am
“It is claimed that a 15 watt CFL will give the same light output as a 100 watt incandescent bulb.”
That would be an 85% electric-use reduction, which would be nice, but no one has claimed such. It is the 26 watts bulbs which claim to be equivalent to 100 watt incandescent bulbs.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:11 am
Premature failures:
Apart from the odd one due to bad luck, if you average a short lifespan the problem is probably due to either:
1) Heat buildup. Being lower-wattage, CFLs don’t generate as much heat as incandescents. But whereas you can put an incandescent into the oven, CFLs do not tolerate a high temperature. Consequently, they must be put in a fixture which is open at bottom and top for circulation of the heated air. Ceiling fixtures such as domes, being fully enclosed, will ruin the bulbs quickly. Even a desk lamp with an open cone or hemisphere enclosure of the bulb can allow too much heat buildup, if it doesn’t have vent holes near the socket / center. You will get reasonable heat circulation with such a device if the light is pointed horizontally, but not if it is pointed straight up or down. You can blame the CFL manufacturers and CFL boosters for not prominently pointing out the problem, but they really can’t be blamed for the fixture designs. Hopefully, in the future more fixtures will be made with vent holes.
2) Humidity. In a small bathroom with showers the very high humidity will kill CFLs.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:17 am
FreddyHill: “I live in Houston, and pay over $400 a month feeding my hungy air-conditioners during the summer months, so saving a few bucks in lighting does not excite me much)”
Actually, for you the CFLs will save almost twice as much in electricity costs as you would estimate, because their heat output is also reduced exactly in line with the wattage reduction.
For someone in a colder climate, during the heating season, CFLs will mean your furnace will run slightly more often. Still, oil and gas are cheaper sources of heat than electricity, and the heating season isn’t all of the year, either. In the extreme case where you have electric base heaters, the CFLs will save exactly zero electricity during the heating season.
For these reasons, I think the electric companies and do-gooders ought to promote CFLs as something especially worth doing each spring.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:18 am
Our local environmental groups in the Gainesville, VA area have been pushing CFLs pretty hard. Supposedly, CFLs and other energy conservatation measures will help prevent the need for new powerlines. I doubt the solution is that simple.
Here is post on the subject.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:19 am
I’ve found that they do last much longer than incandescent bulbs. I put about 4 of them in the garage several years ago and have yet to replace any of them. I’ve had a couple go bad elsewhere, but for me, almost never having to replace bulbs makes them worth it even without any energy savings. And for me they’ve done fine in enclosed ceiling fixtures (where most of ours are), humid bathrooms, and in my cone-style desk lamp.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:20 am
I was told be an electrical engineer that it’s all about electronic ballast overheating. That would explain the CFLs burning out especially fast in Mark’s ceiling lights, and the outdoor lights laster forever (though dimly) in cold Illinois.
He echoed Dittelli’s comments about circulation. The one point at which he differed was that he considered the upright bulb position to be ideal (better than horizontal, which in turn is better than pointing down). His reasoning is that heat rises away from the ballast if the ballast is below the bulb, which though much cooler than incandescent, still does produce enough heat to cause trouble.
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:31 am
I first started using flourescents after I bought an apartment building. I had two hall lights that remained on 24/7, and I was changing lightbulbs every one-two weeks. What a pain! I switched to circular flourescents and the first one lasted 6 years, the second one, 7! Thats 6 and 7 years of 24 hour/day operation. I was hooked.
Now I have CFLs all over the house. In some places, like a closet, they aren’t appropriate. But in any location where the light stays on a lot, they are great. I’ve had a few “duds,” but in general the least duration I’ve gotten has been two-three years.
In my area, the 6 packs at Lowes and Home Depot are costing about $9, so they aren’t expensive. Not having to change the damned bulbs so often is reason enough for me to go with CFLs. The electricity savings and lower heat generation are just gravy!
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:35 am
I’m certainly in the “save time, not money” group when it comes to CFLs…that’s why I bought them in the first place. Money would be a bonus. But it doesn’t seem to have worked out that way, for me, anyway. I’m buying the same number of bulbs every month from Sam’s. And there’s that garage light business, which makes me nuts.
Of course, none of this is scientifically measured or anything — it’s purely anecdotal.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:56 am
I moved into a new house 2 years ago and used flourescents for the last 3-4 years at my last house. I’ll second the claim that there is a slightly annoying brief time-lag from when the switch is thown until the bulb actually lights. It also seems to be true that they start dim and gradually brighten to full strength, though it seems to me that they reach full or near-full brightness within 5 minutes or so, and maybe a little longer if the bulb is outside and it’s cold (like less then 40-50 degrees, and it may not even turn on for 5 minutes or more if it’s below zero).
I can also say that while I’ve never had a flourescent in my house for longer than maybe 4 years at the outside, I’ve had close to a hundred overall and I’ve never had one burn out yet.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:14 am
If you are referring to the spiral tube flourescent bulbs, and I am pretty sure you are, I have had one in my converted gas light in front of the house for about three years now. It is never turned off except accidentally.
It worked so well I put one in the laundry room, which requires climbing to change, in hopes that it would mean less climbing. So far, so good. It does have a half-second lag, but I think I can deal with that. I wait longer at the doctor’s office for less illumination.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:24 am
I live in a 125-year-old brownstone. For several years our regular bulbs were lasting, depending on the fixture, anywhere from one week (yes, that’s week) to a couple of months. And given that we have very high ceilings in many rooms it was a real pain to replace them so we’d often have rooms with only one 60w bulb. Dark and depressing. We called in electricians, considered rewiring the house, changed fixtures but at the recommendation of an electrician switched to CFLs. That was last fall and our CFLS are still going strong - haven’t replaced one yet. We get light as soon as we flip the switch, at about 75% full luminosity. It takes maybe a minute for them to reach full luminosity. I was concerned that the quality of the light would be harsh and ugly but it’s fine - given that our house can be a bit dark in the best of times I actually prefer the brighter light quallity CFLS provide. And we’ve used them in closed dome fixtures with no problems whatsoever.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:03 am
My line quality is terrible. I think there’s a big inductive load on my phase somewhere in my neighbourhood. Incandescents do not tolerate overvoltage very well at all. Lifetime goes like the inverse twelfth power of current, so even a 5% overvoltage can dramatically shorten lifespan. I was replacing bulbs almost daily. I substituted incandescents with CFLs, and the last time I bough a bulb was about five years ago. I’ve had good experiences with colour temperature, although the ramp-up in luminosity can be a pain. The good thing is I feel justified in leaving area lights on because power consumption is so much lower.
What I’m really waiting for is LEDs to hit the right price/luminosity point. Thy have all the efficiency benefits of CFLs, but they’re dimmable, achieve full luminosity instantly, and can be produced in any colour temperature you want. And as for lifetime — probably 30+ years in normal operation.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:03 am
I was changing my lightpost bulb every 6 months, mainly because it never gets turned off. I switched to a CFL that has lasted nearly 5 years. Now the problem is that a serious spiderweb has bulit up inside the globe. I seem to have created a nice habitat for arachnea.
The CFLs I have in recessed fixtures have also lasted for years and I find I no longer get annoyed at the time delay when they are turned on.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:59 am
And what about the disposal problems with these bulbs? Hazardous waste, that mercury. All the eco-tards do not consider the entire set of unintended consequences before crowing for prohibition of incandecent bulbs.
I think the LEDs will be where its at, these are a disaster with respect to disposal.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:33 pm
I recall many years ago being told that florescent bulbs last longer if they are not turned on and off frequently. This argument was used to convince commercial buildings to leave their flors on all night and all day, rather than turning them off when a room or building is vacant and turning them back on when someone enters the room or occupies the building. There was a formula that said the cost of the electricity to keep them on was less than the cost to replace them when they burned out.
So perhaps the “erratic” longevity of CFls is related to how they are used. CFLs that are constantly on may last longer than those that are turned on and off based oh where they are used.
Worth an anecdotal study?
April 24th, 2007 at 10:15 pm
I only have them in my back yard flood lights. 3 years & still going strong. Nice bright light, even in the cold. Takes about 2 minutes to get the dilithium crystals up to full warp capacity, Cap’n…..
KD
April 29th, 2007 at 12:50 am
After a week of the bulb in the laundry room, my wife doesn’t like it. Not just the delay in coming on, which she finds annoying, but “it’s too cold,” she says. Not a warm light like incandescent. I think we’ll wait for LEDs to get cheaper.
May 7th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
Hmm, changed most of the incandescents to CFLs we bought from Costco a year or two ago and they’re all still going strong. And my electric bill went down.
What I’m really interested in, though, is a way to avoid giving any more of my money to the terror-funding oil ticks in the middle east. So we just bought an electric bike to try out for short errands.
And my politics are very likely to the right of yours….